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INTERVIEW

INTERVIEW: ‘Like before the Swedish financial crisis only the numbers are bigger’

Andreas Cervenka, the author of the hit book Girig-Sverige, or Greedy Sweden, is, you can safely say, not the cheeriest of economic commentators.

INTERVIEW: 'Like before the Swedish financial crisis only the numbers are bigger'
Andreas Cervenka believes it will be clear over the next six months whether Sweden is going to suffer a financial crash or not. Photo: Miriam Preis/Natur och Kultur

The situation the country is in, Cervenka explains in this week’s Sweden in Focus podcast, out this Saturday, is in some ways worse even than what it was in the run-up to the 1990-1994 Swedish financial crisis. 

“In the beginning of the 90s, we had a huge real estate and housing bubble that burst and sent Sweden into the deepest financial crisis since the Second World War, and we’re still actually feeling the effects of that,” he says. “What’s happening now is roughly the same, only the numbers are bigger.” 

Girig-Sverige, which won Cervenka Sweden’s most prestigious journalism prize last year, tells the story of how the decision to scrap a string of taxes on wealth and assets combined with years of zero or negative interest rates to make Sweden dramatically more unequal as a society, while turning its people and companies into the most indebted in the world after Hong Kong and Luxembourg.

For Cervenka, the Riksbank bears a lot of the blame for this depressing development.

“All parts of the state should be evaluated on their results. And the result is: have they fulfilled the target of inflation? No, in practically no period over the last 15 years have they been able to stabilise at around 2 percent. Has something else happened in society? Well, we have become the most indebted country in the world.” 

The bank, he believes, has been wrong to turn a blind eye to the extreme inflation in assets like property and equities, while focusing exclusively on consumer prices. 

“There’s obviously a lot of talk about inflation these days. But in fact, we have had inflation in Sweden for quite a long time, not in consumer prices, but in assets,” he explains.

“That’s rising prices of property, stocks, land or all kinds of financial assets, and that’s been quite explosive for a long time, which benefits people who own assets, and specifically people who own assets that they financed with debt.”

Normally, central banks only use negative interest rates as a last resort when the economy is in a deep recession, but the Riksbank has had them in place while the economy has been booming and unemployment low, changing the balance between rich and poor in Sweden.

“The central bank is supposed to be an apolitical institution. But low interest rates do create inequality in the way that they actually transfer money from people who don’t own things, who don’t have mortgages, to people who do. And that’s been a huge transfer of wealth.” 

The central bank has not acted alone, however. Parties of both left and right have acted to reduce the taxation on assets. 

“Sweden is still a very high-tax country when it comes to taxation of labour. We’re not number one in the world, but we’re still in the top five. But when it comes to taxes on assets and property, we’ve been abolishing a lot of taxes,” he explains.

Someone making a million kronor from dividends and rising stock prices would only have to pay about 7 percent tax on that income, he estimates, whereas someone making a million kronor in salary would pay about 35 percent. 

For Cervenka, it is not only the indebtedness in society which is a problem, but the way gross inequality slows economic growth and leads to rising crime and health disparities, while the near-impossibility of getting rich through earning a salary skews people’s choices. 

“The difference between a very high taxation of labour and relatively low taxation on assets definitely alters your incentives as a citizen,” he says. “It’s been much more profitable to own a house over the last 10 years than to work.” 

Soaring house price inflation has also led to segregation, with the young, immigrant populations, and other groups priced out of upmarket parts of Sweden’s cities. 

“If you look at the centre of Stockholm, you can almost have a sign saying, ‘If you’re young, don’t bother coming here, because you can’t afford it’,” he says. 

“It also affects, you know, ‘can you afford to have kids?’, ‘What kind of job should you be looking for?’ If you’re living in Stockholm, if you are a teacher, a nurse or a policeman, it’s almost like an economic sacrifice because the cost of living is so extremely high.”

“In the US, they talk a lot about gated communities, and in Sweden, we have that, but we have something much more effective than walls or barbed wire, we have high square metre prices.” 

Those who haven’t managed to get a mortgage or benefit from the low rates have ended up crammed together in the same segregated areas, he adds, fuelling some of the problems Sweden has had with gang crime. 

“The people who don’t own anything, they all stay in the same area and that creates some social problems and just this crazy tension in the fabric of society.” 

So will the economy have a hard landing? Cervenka believes the high level of indebtedness, both in the population and in the corporate sector, makes Sweden vulnerable. 

“I would say we are one of the most rate-sensitive economies in the whole world,” he says. “The Swedish state has very low debt, but the private sector is very highly indebted, so the rate increases have much more impact on Sweden than on a lot of other countries in Europe.” 

A huge proportion of many people’s income already goes to paying off their mortgages, he adds. 

“A lot of people in Sweden are practically working for their banks now, because that’s where the the lion’s share of their income goes. We talk a lot about how the price of eggs or butter has increased 20, 30, 40 percent. But interest payments have maybe gone up by 300 to 400 percent – four or five times what you used to pay – and a that’s a huge increase.” 

In the near future, Cervenka predicts, we will discover whether Sweden’s economy is in for a soft landing or a devastating crash.

“Right now, the markets are betting that we can avoid the worst-case scenario. But the jury’s still out, and I think the next six months will be quite crucial.” 

Member comments

  1. The Swedish finance crisis 1990-1993 was essentially caused by deregulation of the Swedish credit market in November 1985 by Olof Palme’s social democratic government and the then finance minister Kjell-Olof Feldt. It’s a complicated story too long to describe here, but cannot be compared with the current situation in Sweden.

    A zero interest policy, known internationally as ZIRP, has been applied more or less since the 2008 crisis and up until recently across the world in countries such as Japan, the United States, Australia, and most of Europe. Sweden is very far from unique in this aspect. Quantitative easing (QE) has also been internationally applied by all major economies.

    The article says that one would only pay about 7 percent tax on 1 million SEK of dividends and rising stock prices in Sweden. This is incorrect. Tax on dividends in Sweden is 30%, and tax on a realised stock-market profit is 22%.

    The article also says that it would be “more profitable to own a house over the last 10 years than to work” which is an odd comparison in as much as owning a house does not provide a monthly income, and the article omits to say that one pays 22% tax on the realised profit of selling your home in Sweden.

    All in all, after reading the article and listening to today’s podcast, Cerevenka seems to be angry about the abolishment of inheritance tax, gift tax, property tax and wealth tax. Oh boy, thank heavens he is not aspiring to become Sweden’s next finance minister…!

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OPINION AND ANALYSIS

OPINION: Swedes, it’s time to embrace language barriers, not avoid them

In a recent article in Dagens Nyheter, journalist Alex Schulman praises the Danish coach of Sweden's football team for speaking English in press conferences. Wouldn't it be better to embrace the Danish-Swedish language barrier, instead of avoiding it, asks The Local's deputy editor Becky Waterton.

OPINION: Swedes, it's time to embrace language barriers, not avoid them

For most immigrants, language barriers are a fact of life. Whether that’s trying to decipher the syllables of a Swedish sentence as a new learner or being met with a blank stare when we try to order a coffee for the first time in Swedish, it’s a natural part of getting to know a new country.

Swedes, on the other hand, seem to find language barriers intensely awkward, doing whatever they can to either avoid them or pretend they don’t exist.

One example is a new learner of Swedish speaking a heavily accented or grammatically incorrect version of the language, which may be difficult to understand. Often, a Swede facing this scenario will switch to English or plough through the conversation pretending they understand the other person’s broken Swedish, either out of fear of offending or in order to save face. 

Neither of these solutions are really ideal, as they both deprive the new learner of Swedish a chance to improve, which perpetuates the language barrier itself, and can even make communication impossible if the person speaking broken Swedish doesn’t understand any English at all.

How will you ever learn that you’re saying something wrong in Swedish to the extent that it’s incomprehensible if everyone around you just pretends they understand you or never corrects you?

This also applies to pan-Scandinavian communication, where journalist and author Alex Schulman is firmly in the “switch to English” camp. 

In a recent article in Dagens Nyheter, Schulman mentions attending a book fair in Copenhagen, where he struggled to communicate with his Danish editor in the taxi from the airport. This inability to understand Danish only becomes more obvious when he gets up on stage for an interview in Danish.

“It was parodical, obviously. The interviewer asked questions, which I didn’t understand, and then I answered completely different things in Swedish, which she didn’t understand, in front of an audience who didn’t understand anything,” he writes.

He mentions this like it’s a funny anecdote – and to be fair, he might be exaggerating for comedic effect – but I can’t help but feel it would have been better for everyone if he’d just been honest about the language barrier in advance, instead of going all the way to Copenhagen to apparently waste the time of his editor, interviewer and audience by clearly not being able to communicate with them. 

Now, my issue is not that he can’t understand Danish – the two languages are considered mutually intelligible, but in reality many Scandinavians find it hard to understand each other without making any effort – but surely he knew in advance that they would be speaking Danish? 

Would it not have been better to say “hey, I’m not great at Danish, so you might need to speak a bit slower, or is it possible for you to repeat some of the questions in English?”, or to listen to a few Danish podcasts or radio shows in advance to get an ear for the language, instead of just pretending to know what everyone is saying?

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Isn’t the best response when meeting a language barrier working together to overcome it? 

I saw a great example of this in an unlikely place – the new series of Swedish gardening show Trädgårdstider.

Former host Tareq Taylor, a Swede, had to move to Stockholm last year and drop out of the show, which is filmed hours away in Skåne. His replacement is Danish chef and TV presenter Adam Aamann, who doesn’t speak Swedish. The other three hosts, Malin Persson, Pernilla Månsson Colt and John Taylor (no relation), don’t speak Danish, they speak Swedish.

The hosts of Trädgårdstider from left to right: Pernilla Månsson Colt, Malin Persson, Adam Aamann and John Taylor. Photo: Niklas Forshell/SVT

Of course, the group could have switched to English when Aamann was around, but in a preview for next week’s episode (Tuesday 8pm on SVT1 or SVTPlay), I found it refreshing how public broadcaster SVT has chosen to stand up for Scandinavian mutual intelligibility, with the Swedes speaking Swedish and the Dane speaking Danish (with Swedish subtitles for viewers at home, but it’s a start at least).

This isn’t without its issues – Taylor and Aamann have a moment of confusion when trying to figure out what different vegetables are called in each language – but instead of giving up entirely, they work together to overcome the barrier.

Sure, they use English as a helping hand in communication – Taylor, who is English, gives Aamann the English name of one vegetable when he realises Swedish isn’t working – but once they’ve figured out the issue, the pair switch back to their Scandinavian languages.

This also has an extra benefit for both of them, as not only do they get over the linguistic hurdle, but in not switching directly to English they also learn the word for the vegetable in question in each other’s languages too, meaning that they won’t come across this particular language barrier with each other or with another speaker of Danish or Swedish again.

It also takes the audience into account – instead of switching to English and alienating any viewers who don’t speak it, they stick to their Scandinavian languages and will hopefully increase the Swedish audience’s understanding of Danish, too.

In Schulman’s article, he describes his relief when the new Danish coach of the Swedish football team, Jon Dahl Tomasson, announced that he was planning to speak English, instead of Danish, in press conferences in Sweden.

“It was so refreshing, because suddenly, there he stood – a Dane who you could understand for the first time in your life.”

The new Danish coach of Sweden’s national football team, Jon Dahl Tomasson. Photo: Stefan Jerrevång/TT

“I’ve been so happy that I’m at the point of tears, because I think Tomasson’s decision could set a new standard, I think this will give Swedes confidence. We’re building a new relationship with Denmark now, and in that relationship the language we use is English. It’s a relationship where we understand each other for the first time,” he writes.

I’m glad Schulman can understand a Dane for the first time, but I think he’s missing the point somewhat.

If Swedes and Danes speaking their own languages actively tried – together – to understand each other when they come across language barriers between the two languages instead of immediately turning to English, they’d be much better at actually understanding each other’s language in the first place, and the shared work to overcome the barrier would probably bring them closer, too.

English can be a useful tool to aid comprehension, but if you just switch to it whenever you come across the smallest amount of resistance in a conversation, you’re perpetuating language barriers when you could be breaking them down together.

Language barriers are an opportunity rather than an embarrassing moment we should pretend to ignore. We’ll only learn how to speak to each other in a way that everyone understands if we’re honest with each other about the communication issues we have.

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